I haven’t yet read the NY Mag article, where perhaps this is discussed.
But isn’t Joleene the very same woman that Amy repeatedly reaches out to in the book, based on a hunch that she was also one of the teacher’s victims? The woman who refuses to talk about it or acknowledge any abuse? (Perhaps out of shame, or perhaps because Amy’s hunch was wrong)
The fact that she was willing, as a self-described perfectionist, to overthrow her seemingly perfect life to pursue this so doggedly suggests to me that it is more true than not. She had nothing to gain except peace and I hope she found it.
Having not yet read the book nor the article, the sexual abuse of young girls (and boys) is sadly too commonplace. It could be that both Jolene and Amy both experienced the same thing. Regarding the MDMA experience, I have heard that the concept of time gets distorted when one is going through a psychedelic experience. What felt like five minutes may have been an hour. And the lawsuits show that neither woman has healed.
Thank you, David. I thought about publishing my story… but you and a few other wise people have helped me decide that nobody needs to read another sexual abuse story!
David, I’ve read her book and will now go look up the articles you’ve referenced. This “doubting” of Amy Griffin as a rape victim reminds me of Christine Blasey Ford accusing Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh of sexually assaulting her during his Supreme Court Senate confirmation hearings. I believed Blasey Ford… inconceivable to me that a woman would make that up and talk about it on a stage for all the world to hear (and judge). I see parallels; why would Amy Griffin fabricate this story and write a memoir about it? Maybe I’m naive, but the pain of exposing herself so publicly is too great.
I’ve been assaulted more than once and was sexually harassed in high school at Interlochen Arts Academy which is now famous due not only to its excellent educational reputation but also its connection with Epstein. I’ve also become quite skeptical of any woman who makes a project out of her alleged sexual abuse. Me Too made it too easy to ruin men’s lives for no reason and chilled of not made actively hostile the relations between the sexes for years now. What used to be an unfortunate comment is now treated like a crime. I refuse to share the details of anything that happened to me in public and it’s the last thing I’d want to be famous for. Everyone knows that girls have been abused. There is no need to raise awareness. I wish they would deal with these things within the justice system, their families and maybe a therapist and not drag the rest of us through it.
I think, however, if someone decides to go public and does not have recourse to the justice system, the right thing to do is to believe them unless there’s evidence to the contrary. I can’t know what it’s like to have suffered abuse, suppressed it, and then feel like you needed to do something about it.
I'm very sorry that you were abused, and I hope you are doing well. But I truly can't imagine that you think that many men have been 'harmed' by false accusations during Me Too. Except for Harvey Weinstein and Epstein himself, most celebrity men have been 'cancelled' for a year or two (or not at all, just laid low for a bit) and paid no real price.
And as far as the justice system, well, Clarence Thomas and Brett Kavanaugh have lifetime positions on the Supreme Court, so I'm not sure that the justice system supports most women with abuse claims.
Not a book I will read, but I’m as ever admiring of your fair, balanced assessment of things, and that you believe women (and dismiss the easy “she wanted attention”). Thank you, David.
"The truth is that she spoke about her misfortune without any shame in order to cover up the other misfortune, the real one, that was burning in her insides."-Chronicle of a Death Foretold by Gabriel García Márquez,
David, this may be the most difficult topic you’ve raised yet for me to offer a comment. Sexual abuse is horrific. Inexcusable. At the same time, falsely accusing someone of such an horrendous crime is also inexcusable. Profiting - whether monetarily, with an intent to gain notoriety, or otherwise - from untruths is also offensive. There seem to be a number of potential conflicts here - with someone being wronged. You seem to have struggled to find what you consider the right path through it all. I commend you for it. You may be correct. I love to read, with my favorites focusing on the human conditions/emotions like Grapes of Wrath, Anna Karenina, David Copperfield, Lonesome Dove. Because of your note today I will leave my comfort zone and go buy and read this book. One thing I will be searching for is what was the goal in writing this.
Thanks Scott. It’s very hard to prove that the abuse did not happen. As well, there’s no forensic proof that it did. So, we’re left with the testimony of the victim and an assessment of why she would make these accusations if they are untrue. It is a difficult topic and I’ll be interested to hear what you think after you read the book.
I haven't read the book, but I am aware of the story and the articles. I do remember the publicity when the book came out, with all the celebrities and high profile NYT story, which is unusual for both a 'normie', and for a sexual abuse story.
I can understand why the ghostwriter may not have gone into detail about Amy's wealth and lifestyle, though, given that Belle Burden DID go into detail and it still wasn't quite enough for some people, and the subsequent 'can you really feel sorry for a rich woman' discourse. I know publication dates would probably indicate no coincidence in timing, but I can see a writer thinking that people would not be as sympathetic if they got the full view of her lifestyle.
I haven’t yet read the NY Mag article, where perhaps this is discussed.
But isn’t Joleene the very same woman that Amy repeatedly reaches out to in the book, based on a hunch that she was also one of the teacher’s victims? The woman who refuses to talk about it or acknowledge any abuse? (Perhaps out of shame, or perhaps because Amy’s hunch was wrong)
It’s a different woman who Amy calls “Claudia.”
The fact that she was willing, as a self-described perfectionist, to overthrow her seemingly perfect life to pursue this so doggedly suggests to me that it is more true than not. She had nothing to gain except peace and I hope she found it.
Having not yet read the book nor the article, the sexual abuse of young girls (and boys) is sadly too commonplace. It could be that both Jolene and Amy both experienced the same thing. Regarding the MDMA experience, I have heard that the concept of time gets distorted when one is going through a psychedelic experience. What felt like five minutes may have been an hour. And the lawsuits show that neither woman has healed.
Thank you, David. I thought about publishing my story… but you and a few other wise people have helped me decide that nobody needs to read another sexual abuse story!
What matters most to people and to God, in my belief system, is "faith expressed in love" (Galatians 5:6)
David, I’ve read her book and will now go look up the articles you’ve referenced. This “doubting” of Amy Griffin as a rape victim reminds me of Christine Blasey Ford accusing Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh of sexually assaulting her during his Supreme Court Senate confirmation hearings. I believed Blasey Ford… inconceivable to me that a woman would make that up and talk about it on a stage for all the world to hear (and judge). I see parallels; why would Amy Griffin fabricate this story and write a memoir about it? Maybe I’m naive, but the pain of exposing herself so publicly is too great.
I’ve been assaulted more than once and was sexually harassed in high school at Interlochen Arts Academy which is now famous due not only to its excellent educational reputation but also its connection with Epstein. I’ve also become quite skeptical of any woman who makes a project out of her alleged sexual abuse. Me Too made it too easy to ruin men’s lives for no reason and chilled of not made actively hostile the relations between the sexes for years now. What used to be an unfortunate comment is now treated like a crime. I refuse to share the details of anything that happened to me in public and it’s the last thing I’d want to be famous for. Everyone knows that girls have been abused. There is no need to raise awareness. I wish they would deal with these things within the justice system, their families and maybe a therapist and not drag the rest of us through it.
I think, however, if someone decides to go public and does not have recourse to the justice system, the right thing to do is to believe them unless there’s evidence to the contrary. I can’t know what it’s like to have suffered abuse, suppressed it, and then feel like you needed to do something about it.
I'm very sorry that you were abused, and I hope you are doing well. But I truly can't imagine that you think that many men have been 'harmed' by false accusations during Me Too. Except for Harvey Weinstein and Epstein himself, most celebrity men have been 'cancelled' for a year or two (or not at all, just laid low for a bit) and paid no real price.
And as far as the justice system, well, Clarence Thomas and Brett Kavanaugh have lifetime positions on the Supreme Court, so I'm not sure that the justice system supports most women with abuse claims.
Well researched, thought out, and argued, David. A smart and sensitive response to a sad and horrific story - both the original and the aftermath.
Not a book I will read, but I’m as ever admiring of your fair, balanced assessment of things, and that you believe women (and dismiss the easy “she wanted attention”). Thank you, David.
"The truth is that she spoke about her misfortune without any shame in order to cover up the other misfortune, the real one, that was burning in her insides."-Chronicle of a Death Foretold by Gabriel García Márquez,
I will skip the book but appreciate your meticulous and thoughtful analysis of the controversy.
David, this may be the most difficult topic you’ve raised yet for me to offer a comment. Sexual abuse is horrific. Inexcusable. At the same time, falsely accusing someone of such an horrendous crime is also inexcusable. Profiting - whether monetarily, with an intent to gain notoriety, or otherwise - from untruths is also offensive. There seem to be a number of potential conflicts here - with someone being wronged. You seem to have struggled to find what you consider the right path through it all. I commend you for it. You may be correct. I love to read, with my favorites focusing on the human conditions/emotions like Grapes of Wrath, Anna Karenina, David Copperfield, Lonesome Dove. Because of your note today I will leave my comfort zone and go buy and read this book. One thing I will be searching for is what was the goal in writing this.
Thanks Scott. It’s very hard to prove that the abuse did not happen. As well, there’s no forensic proof that it did. So, we’re left with the testimony of the victim and an assessment of why she would make these accusations if they are untrue. It is a difficult topic and I’ll be interested to hear what you think after you read the book.
I haven't read the book, but I am aware of the story and the articles. I do remember the publicity when the book came out, with all the celebrities and high profile NYT story, which is unusual for both a 'normie', and for a sexual abuse story.
I can understand why the ghostwriter may not have gone into detail about Amy's wealth and lifestyle, though, given that Belle Burden DID go into detail and it still wasn't quite enough for some people, and the subsequent 'can you really feel sorry for a rich woman' discourse. I know publication dates would probably indicate no coincidence in timing, but I can see a writer thinking that people would not be as sympathetic if they got the full view of her lifestyle.