A well made argument. I think that there are a lot of them on both sides of the issue. One that I haven’t heard, but that I think about sometimes, is the highly interdependent nature of the country/economy. For instance, some taxpayers paid significant tax increases so that the money could be used to encourage other people to invest in the economy – people whose investments will do/did quite well and were made possible by others who will receive no direct benefit. Other taxpayers either paid more taxes or suffered inflation so that we could build bridges in places where those taxpayers may never go. The list is endless and encompasses legislation championed by both parties. Someone's ox is always gored - at least a little. And yes, those acts of legislation are often wielded not exclusively for the good of the country, but for political gain – as I believe this one has been. Shocking. But your bottom line – to not sacrifice good at the alter of the perfect – has the ring of common sense to it. Last thought - after all is said and done, I do not believe that the Supreme court will uphold the President’s authority to do what he did under these circumstances. We’ll see. Thanks for another good post.
Your last point is vital. With each presidency we are seeing the power of the executive grow while Congress abdicates its responsibilities in favor of constant electioneering. Where will this lead? SCOTUS is our only hope for addressing, even in small bites, this enormous problem.
Thank you. I agree that the inability of Congress to function expresses itself in distortions of our governance (though on occasion, the inability of Congress to act is a good thing (and intended). This leads us to a discussion about the many reasons why Congress is so often so hamstrung – one of which David touches upon – the sacrifice of the good at the altar of the perfect, or writ another way – the demand for religious purity by those on all sides of the political spectrum who are vested more in themselves then in the nation we love. Topic for another post on another day? I wouldn’t be surprised!
I'll start with this. Want to make this better? Start in the public schools. Start by demanding a decent education for every child, defined by mastery of basic reading and math skills. Had the students to whom you refer been better prepared, then much of the sad story you told might have been different.
Next, let's please drop the notion that college is for everyone. I had an acquaintance who, without a college degree, earned a living as a handyman. His wife worked, too. Together, they owned a home in the NYC suburbs and they sent 2 children to school. The world needs handymen and we might help some young people by teaching them those skills, rather than telling them they should go to college. Of course, I'm using the handyman as only one example of work that needs to be done and has enough value to help support a family in middle class comfort.
As to debt relief, if we are to consider that then there should be consequences for those who approved the debt. If institutions allow students to jump into water too deep for them, should they not bear some responsibility?
Finally, why is the upper income limit set at $125,000, if not just for political purposes? What would the limit have to be to cover all the students to whom you refer in your experience. My guess is $30,000 would cover all of them. Want to make it $40? $125k is designed to win votes and I have a problem with that.
What will the impact be on future students? and lenders? Lend more. Borrow more, for the government will make it good.
If there is to be any relief, reform of the education mess should be a part of it and, by the way, it should be voted on by Congress. No to the imperial presidency, regardless of policy.
I think the people who find fault with this debt relief are the ones who can see past the fact that this debt relief won’t directly help them. That’s too short sighted. As we know an educated populace is important to a healthy democracy and also helps make a stable middle class. We shouldn’t saddle the underprivileged with excessive debt as they seek that education. I think this debt relief plan is a good first step. Let’s try this out, see what happens, then refine the plan once we have more data about education debt relief.
I read this and it made me think....does a person wake up one morning and decide (or maybe over mo this or years like kids and parents decide over months and years that college is the plan to be enacted) I gonna have a stroke today and run up a bill at a hospital, rehab, home care, post home care care...and end up owing 100k to my debtors? Not many people plan an unexpected illness. So why aren't we deciding to help this subset of people that can devastate a person/family ongoing? At least these people didn't plan on 100k of debt that they knew they would have to pay off? It got me thinking.
And as we enter a new academic year in post high school education, has there been much talk and/or effort to stop this issue for those potentially affected going forward? Wouldn't it have been better to get colleges and their endowments or their processes revamped to stop this problem going forward? I have no idea how many students enter post high school education, let's say 10,000. How many of these 10,000 end up being the ones in the bucket that Bideni trying to save (you make less than 125k single/250k married)? He hasn't helped this group despite saying education is ruining their lives. It smells of voter harvesting. Now if he could approve abortion nationwide and ban AR15s, he would be the next coming of Christ for the liberal Democrat voter. He would be re-elected today. As if Beiden cares about post-students in debt. I can't believe he has cared in his 40+ years in office. Where has he been carrying this torch prior to now? Or maybe he needs a guiding light to re-ignite his failing presidency? I paid a lot of money for my loans and would do it all over again. Why? Because that's what I said I would do when I asked for the loans! Why not write off 10k of debt for everyone is the USA? If he is for equity, why not make it equitable? Give everyone 10k. Who could complain about that!
1) While I support the Bidden plan, I agree with you that the system also is in desperate need of fixing.
2) It also would have been better to more narrowly target those who did not receive value for their debt: specifically including the people who could not finish college because they were not prepared academically by their high school or could not finish because they were unaware of how little support they would receive from their community college or those who were conned into attending some rip-off for-profit institution.
I think your comparison with an unexpected medical bill is an interesting way to think about it. Unplanned vs. planned. However, something of inestimable value, i,.e, healthcare vs. something of no value, e.g., an unfinished or worthless degree.
Health care and healthcare insurance inequity is another huge problem I hope we can as a country make progress on over time.
A well made argument. I think that there are a lot of them on both sides of the issue. One that I haven’t heard, but that I think about sometimes, is the highly interdependent nature of the country/economy. For instance, some taxpayers paid significant tax increases so that the money could be used to encourage other people to invest in the economy – people whose investments will do/did quite well and were made possible by others who will receive no direct benefit. Other taxpayers either paid more taxes or suffered inflation so that we could build bridges in places where those taxpayers may never go. The list is endless and encompasses legislation championed by both parties. Someone's ox is always gored - at least a little. And yes, those acts of legislation are often wielded not exclusively for the good of the country, but for political gain – as I believe this one has been. Shocking. But your bottom line – to not sacrifice good at the alter of the perfect – has the ring of common sense to it. Last thought - after all is said and done, I do not believe that the Supreme court will uphold the President’s authority to do what he did under these circumstances. We’ll see. Thanks for another good post.
Your last point is vital. With each presidency we are seeing the power of the executive grow while Congress abdicates its responsibilities in favor of constant electioneering. Where will this lead? SCOTUS is our only hope for addressing, even in small bites, this enormous problem.
Thank you. I agree that the inability of Congress to function expresses itself in distortions of our governance (though on occasion, the inability of Congress to act is a good thing (and intended). This leads us to a discussion about the many reasons why Congress is so often so hamstrung – one of which David touches upon – the sacrifice of the good at the altar of the perfect, or writ another way – the demand for religious purity by those on all sides of the political spectrum who are vested more in themselves then in the nation we love. Topic for another post on another day? I wouldn’t be surprised!
I'll start with this. Want to make this better? Start in the public schools. Start by demanding a decent education for every child, defined by mastery of basic reading and math skills. Had the students to whom you refer been better prepared, then much of the sad story you told might have been different.
Next, let's please drop the notion that college is for everyone. I had an acquaintance who, without a college degree, earned a living as a handyman. His wife worked, too. Together, they owned a home in the NYC suburbs and they sent 2 children to school. The world needs handymen and we might help some young people by teaching them those skills, rather than telling them they should go to college. Of course, I'm using the handyman as only one example of work that needs to be done and has enough value to help support a family in middle class comfort.
As to debt relief, if we are to consider that then there should be consequences for those who approved the debt. If institutions allow students to jump into water too deep for them, should they not bear some responsibility?
Finally, why is the upper income limit set at $125,000, if not just for political purposes? What would the limit have to be to cover all the students to whom you refer in your experience. My guess is $30,000 would cover all of them. Want to make it $40? $125k is designed to win votes and I have a problem with that.
What will the impact be on future students? and lenders? Lend more. Borrow more, for the government will make it good.
If there is to be any relief, reform of the education mess should be a part of it and, by the way, it should be voted on by Congress. No to the imperial presidency, regardless of policy.
There's nothing you wrote that I do not agree with.
And you are right that without institutional responsibility and consequences (and rewards) based on metrics, there will not be change.
New students will continue to suffer and be passed around and taken advantage of.
it really is a disgrace.
I think the people who find fault with this debt relief are the ones who can see past the fact that this debt relief won’t directly help them. That’s too short sighted. As we know an educated populace is important to a healthy democracy and also helps make a stable middle class. We shouldn’t saddle the underprivileged with excessive debt as they seek that education. I think this debt relief plan is a good first step. Let’s try this out, see what happens, then refine the plan once we have more data about education debt relief.
I read this and it made me think....does a person wake up one morning and decide (or maybe over mo this or years like kids and parents decide over months and years that college is the plan to be enacted) I gonna have a stroke today and run up a bill at a hospital, rehab, home care, post home care care...and end up owing 100k to my debtors? Not many people plan an unexpected illness. So why aren't we deciding to help this subset of people that can devastate a person/family ongoing? At least these people didn't plan on 100k of debt that they knew they would have to pay off? It got me thinking.
And as we enter a new academic year in post high school education, has there been much talk and/or effort to stop this issue for those potentially affected going forward? Wouldn't it have been better to get colleges and their endowments or their processes revamped to stop this problem going forward? I have no idea how many students enter post high school education, let's say 10,000. How many of these 10,000 end up being the ones in the bucket that Bideni trying to save (you make less than 125k single/250k married)? He hasn't helped this group despite saying education is ruining their lives. It smells of voter harvesting. Now if he could approve abortion nationwide and ban AR15s, he would be the next coming of Christ for the liberal Democrat voter. He would be re-elected today. As if Beiden cares about post-students in debt. I can't believe he has cared in his 40+ years in office. Where has he been carrying this torch prior to now? Or maybe he needs a guiding light to re-ignite his failing presidency? I paid a lot of money for my loans and would do it all over again. Why? Because that's what I said I would do when I asked for the loans! Why not write off 10k of debt for everyone is the USA? If he is for equity, why not make it equitable? Give everyone 10k. Who could complain about that!
Thanks for this thoughtful comment.
I have two responses.
1) While I support the Bidden plan, I agree with you that the system also is in desperate need of fixing.
2) It also would have been better to more narrowly target those who did not receive value for their debt: specifically including the people who could not finish college because they were not prepared academically by their high school or could not finish because they were unaware of how little support they would receive from their community college or those who were conned into attending some rip-off for-profit institution.
I think your comparison with an unexpected medical bill is an interesting way to think about it. Unplanned vs. planned. However, something of inestimable value, i,.e, healthcare vs. something of no value, e.g., an unfinished or worthless degree.
Health care and healthcare insurance inequity is another huge problem I hope we can as a country make progress on over time.