Answer: the Acme Moralo-meter accurately measures the moral purity--or lack thereof--of any thought, word, or deed, to within a fraction of a percentage point!
``...turning against that instinct of arrogance, an attempt to revert to a better moral mean. ´´ : maybe you should tell that to all the `right-believing´ `Christians´ and `moral´-raging `One G*d One Belief´ Islamists arrogantly claiming their `moral´ was the only right one - with several nations of `enlightenment´ and `Universal Human Rights´ standing by in un-enraged allegedly `middle way´ and letting them rage, `demonstrate´ and establish `Sharia´?
The raging jew hate on several so-called „Elite“ universities became stopped by a „president“ that can hardly be named „middle-way“, thus arises the question what is „atonement“ if it can´t do anything against raging extremes.
To me it is clear, that reaction to faults or misbehavings can only be EARNEST and TRUE and, no matter what scientists or drama poets insinuate or pre-fabricated `reactions´/ ìnstructions´by „Elite“ scientists might tell you should be the best, with `best results´.
- -
Have you ever received osteopathic treatment ? It is designed to raise awareness of your body and soul and develop a feeling for what might be wrong, over-exposed, under-estimated etc. in your mind and body, so to say getting you back to you „midth“ , „atonement“. I have best experiences with that, though it depends very much on the personality of the osteopath, as with most or a lot of „theories“, if they´re not an incorrigible fault in themselves, like a.o. „Marxism“..
You reported Profumo, but forgot to tell us what became of Christine Keeler.
After having been raised by mother and stepfather in Middlesex poor conditions, she went to London looking for a living, and after a few jobs ran into Stephen Ward, an osteopath, artist, and „man about town“ who introduced her to a.o. Profumo; it never became clear if she had told anything of importance to the Russian military attaché with whom reportedly she had an affair at the same time.
Anyway, osteopath Ward caused much confusion in Keelers life while she was only struggling; later she intended to witness in a court case on so-called „immoral earnings“ against Ward who committed suicide before a verdict was spoken.
In her later life, she raised two sons but shying away from lasting relationships to men, who had abused and stalked her so much.
One of her sons, Seymour Platt - a business analyst - said after her death from COPD in 2017, she was a „devoted, loving mother“,
who had received an unfair label while she had been „just a young girl having fun during the burgeoning of sexual liberation“.
“She shouldn’t have felt `great shame´, because, looking back, there was real good that came out of what happened.
It did pull the curtain back, and there were changes in society that were needed.“
Changes to the real, „middle“ truth of human beings - instead of „morals“. (How long) will it last ?
That's an interesting question--I'm not sure I can measure anyone else's "morality"--but in myself, I look at it as an absence of cringe-inducing behavior. (So I guess that's tied to shame, or the good old-fashioned Catholic guilt the nuns instilled in me?) But that's flawed--because what's not cringe-worthy to me--might be cringe-inducing to everyone else.
I keep coming back to that old quote that is apparently misattributed to Abraham Lincoln--but whoever said it, it works: "When I do good, I feel good. And that's my religion."
The problem I have with the concept is (weirdo alert) what if at first sight of you a person behaves in an aggressively hostile manner. Are they telling you they want you to swear at them,grimace,and be uncouth and rude. No,of course not. They are hoping you will react angrily in rudeness then...well someone once said it..,"we want to get you locked up". So I find that seemingly simple idea more nuanced than it looks. But I do understand what it's SUPPOSED to mean. And I'm not locked up - yet!
Thank you. A perfect post Yom Kippur read. And however you got there, I think you arrived at the right place. There's little else in the universe that would do us as much as good as a little more humility.
To have slipped off the right road is as good as any way to describe all the bad stuff that has happened lately or just taking the wrong road that deep down one probably knows will lead to oblivion when one can't get what one wants. To get what one wants despite any pain or death it might cause is the ultimate arrogance that bad karma will ultimately catch up with,sooner or later. To be culpable for one's own wrongs and to correct them is the only way back to the moral middle baseline out of the muddle. If we do that ourselves, hopefully others will as well enough tilt the balance back away from the extreme.
As far as returning to the middle I did see two hopeful signs in The New Yorker magazine, where in the comment section, Erika Kirk, was favorably acknowledged without any criticism in extending forgiveness to the young man who is alleged to have killed her husband. And there was a full length profile of Carol Burnett that told of her whole life and of her most recent success. And she was not criticized in what people said for the article. She is not political and widely known is as a beacon of goodness. These are small developments but I think your encouragement to us to be on our best behavior and to get back on the good road will have good side effects.
As I read, “But we seldom read in history books and newspapers about famous people who sinned, atoned, and were redeemed.” I immediately thought of Jonah, which is of course the Haftorah for Yom Kippur afternoon. Jonah requires two rounds of action by God before fully understanding (the second being the gourd and the worm), the point of redemption is pretty clear.
Jonah is a fascinating story. His sin is that he dies not want to preach to enemies and in doing so save them. it's really a "turn the other cheek" attitude being forced on him bu God.
Jonah is my favourite prophet (I'm a non Jew) I can identify with him in both his reluctance and yes,cowardice then having done it,God pulls the rug from under him! Of course the people of Nineveh listen to him and Do Repent. But is he happy. No,he rails at God,I came all this way at great personal peril and no thunder,storms,earthquakes and explosions. What a crock! I feel for disappointed Jonah.
Your question is the ultimate subjective question and thus impossible to quantify/measure; yet if you're religious, the most important one to know. @dianamwilson put it well- it's one of the great feelings knowing you're on the right track. Yet that gets obscured. To quote the DFW title- something to do with paying attention.
Measure morality? Against what? Unsure of what you ask?Morality is taught in the Torah, in the 10 commandments. I see envy as being a major problem in society today. Envy of the Jewish people. Envy of the wealthy. Envy of the neighbor with the new car, the pretty wife, etc. Being grateful is key.
Somewhere I’ve read something like, “The steepest fall is from the steps of the church.” Paraphrased and maybe misremembered, but it fits here! (PS if anyone has the real, correct quote, I would love to know)
A thought-provoking question. I can’t see into the hearts of others. I was raised with the injunction: “Judge not, lest ye be judged,” from the Bible of a mother who judged me almost into non-existence. As I’ve aged, I’ve found my moral compass through children. What would my six-year-old neighbor think about me if she knew? Works every time. I rely as well on the memory of my father, still my model of integrity. Then there’s my 22-year-old cat. Her message: I didn’t stick around this long just to watch you f- up. Thank you, David, for the opportunity to sort through this issue in a meaningful, personal way.
Thanks Mary. "judge not, lest ye be judged" is in Lincoln's second Inaugural, which is probably my all time favorite speech.
In his Theory of Moral Sentiments, Adam Smith writes that we all have an Impartial Spectator who we know is judging our actions. Better yet if you have an impartial spectator committee,
Love the idea of a Spectator committee. The Second Inaugural is my favorite speech as well, although the Gettysburg Address has me in tears, every single time. Then there’s “Sinnerman.” I might just add Nina to my committee.
I used to be non-judgmental etc until I found out THEY were being totally judgemental of me and,well,seems I have an alter ego who has lived a much more exciting life than me. It's NOT RECIPROCAL. It's not GUARANTEED. Just because you are being tolerant,accepting , - non judgemental THEY don't have to reciprocate. And they probably won't.
David, I was at services for Yom Kippur and the liturgy hit me hard -- Was it the times we are in? We must look inward and try to understand those who continue to support what I see as the destruction of democracy. But I'm finding it harder and harder to talk with Trump supporters and, while reading the liturgy, had so much trouble finding a way to do that.
I highly recommend The Drunkards Walk:How Randomness Rules Our Lives by Leonard Mlodinow. It's a terrific, readable, often very funny look at our desperate need to be able to quantify cause and effect and why the world simply does not work that way.
thank you, David. I miss you. I think each has to be brutally honest with themselves, outside of the conditioning we have been swimming in, and really ask: are my intentions kind and just for the good of my family and for all humanity?
the voice of conscience inside knows the truth. sometimes it has been beaten into silence because we think our survival means the oppression of others, yet this is simply a trick, a test, to reach the truth again. It can feel like walking a tight rope in the air if the windy illusions are too strong, but in truth you are walking a line in the sand, and your feet are strong with each step because humanity survives from being good and caring about others, so all the support of the universe is with you.
To err is human, to forgive is what an alien does!
more inside jokes in the comments, please
Burdened by her father's sense of humor.
Burden her? I hardly know her!
QED!
Answer: the Acme Moralo-meter accurately measures the moral purity--or lack thereof--of any thought, word, or deed, to within a fraction of a percentage point!
``...turning against that instinct of arrogance, an attempt to revert to a better moral mean. ´´ : maybe you should tell that to all the `right-believing´ `Christians´ and `moral´-raging `One G*d One Belief´ Islamists arrogantly claiming their `moral´ was the only right one - with several nations of `enlightenment´ and `Universal Human Rights´ standing by in un-enraged allegedly `middle way´ and letting them rage, `demonstrate´ and establish `Sharia´?
The raging jew hate on several so-called „Elite“ universities became stopped by a „president“ that can hardly be named „middle-way“, thus arises the question what is „atonement“ if it can´t do anything against raging extremes.
To me it is clear, that reaction to faults or misbehavings can only be EARNEST and TRUE and, no matter what scientists or drama poets insinuate or pre-fabricated `reactions´/ ìnstructions´by „Elite“ scientists might tell you should be the best, with `best results´.
- -
Have you ever received osteopathic treatment ? It is designed to raise awareness of your body and soul and develop a feeling for what might be wrong, over-exposed, under-estimated etc. in your mind and body, so to say getting you back to you „midth“ , „atonement“. I have best experiences with that, though it depends very much on the personality of the osteopath, as with most or a lot of „theories“, if they´re not an incorrigible fault in themselves, like a.o. „Marxism“..
You reported Profumo, but forgot to tell us what became of Christine Keeler.
After having been raised by mother and stepfather in Middlesex poor conditions, she went to London looking for a living, and after a few jobs ran into Stephen Ward, an osteopath, artist, and „man about town“ who introduced her to a.o. Profumo; it never became clear if she had told anything of importance to the Russian military attaché with whom reportedly she had an affair at the same time.
Anyway, osteopath Ward caused much confusion in Keelers life while she was only struggling; later she intended to witness in a court case on so-called „immoral earnings“ against Ward who committed suicide before a verdict was spoken.
In her later life, she raised two sons but shying away from lasting relationships to men, who had abused and stalked her so much.
One of her sons, Seymour Platt - a business analyst - said after her death from COPD in 2017, she was a „devoted, loving mother“,
who had received an unfair label while she had been „just a young girl having fun during the burgeoning of sexual liberation“.
“She shouldn’t have felt `great shame´, because, looking back, there was real good that came out of what happened.
It did pull the curtain back, and there were changes in society that were needed.“
Changes to the real, „middle“ truth of human beings - instead of „morals“. (How long) will it last ?
That's an interesting question--I'm not sure I can measure anyone else's "morality"--but in myself, I look at it as an absence of cringe-inducing behavior. (So I guess that's tied to shame, or the good old-fashioned Catholic guilt the nuns instilled in me?) But that's flawed--because what's not cringe-worthy to me--might be cringe-inducing to everyone else.
I keep coming back to that old quote that is apparently misattributed to Abraham Lincoln--but whoever said it, it works: "When I do good, I feel good. And that's my religion."
Amen. That's my only religion.
Me too!
The religious versions are
"Do to others what you would have done to you."
or in the negative, Don't do to others....
The problem I have with the concept is (weirdo alert) what if at first sight of you a person behaves in an aggressively hostile manner. Are they telling you they want you to swear at them,grimace,and be uncouth and rude. No,of course not. They are hoping you will react angrily in rudeness then...well someone once said it..,"we want to get you locked up". So I find that seemingly simple idea more nuanced than it looks. But I do understand what it's SUPPOSED to mean. And I'm not locked up - yet!
A thought-provoking start to my day. Thank you. Now I'm off to do good, or at least buy something directly from a farmer at the local farmer's market.
That IS good.
Thank you. A perfect post Yom Kippur read. And however you got there, I think you arrived at the right place. There's little else in the universe that would do us as much as good as a little more humility.
To have slipped off the right road is as good as any way to describe all the bad stuff that has happened lately or just taking the wrong road that deep down one probably knows will lead to oblivion when one can't get what one wants. To get what one wants despite any pain or death it might cause is the ultimate arrogance that bad karma will ultimately catch up with,sooner or later. To be culpable for one's own wrongs and to correct them is the only way back to the moral middle baseline out of the muddle. If we do that ourselves, hopefully others will as well enough tilt the balance back away from the extreme.
Thanks Larry for the comment.
As far as returning to the middle I did see two hopeful signs in The New Yorker magazine, where in the comment section, Erika Kirk, was favorably acknowledged without any criticism in extending forgiveness to the young man who is alleged to have killed her husband. And there was a full length profile of Carol Burnett that told of her whole life and of her most recent success. And she was not criticized in what people said for the article. She is not political and widely known is as a beacon of goodness. These are small developments but I think your encouragement to us to be on our best behavior and to get back on the good road will have good side effects.
Thanks Larry
As I read, “But we seldom read in history books and newspapers about famous people who sinned, atoned, and were redeemed.” I immediately thought of Jonah, which is of course the Haftorah for Yom Kippur afternoon. Jonah requires two rounds of action by God before fully understanding (the second being the gourd and the worm), the point of redemption is pretty clear.
Jonah is a fascinating story. His sin is that he dies not want to preach to enemies and in doing so save them. it's really a "turn the other cheek" attitude being forced on him bu God.
Thanks Bill.
Jonah is my favourite prophet (I'm a non Jew) I can identify with him in both his reluctance and yes,cowardice then having done it,God pulls the rug from under him! Of course the people of Nineveh listen to him and Do Repent. But is he happy. No,he rails at God,I came all this way at great personal peril and no thunder,storms,earthquakes and explosions. What a crock! I feel for disappointed Jonah.
Your question is the ultimate subjective question and thus impossible to quantify/measure; yet if you're religious, the most important one to know. @dianamwilson put it well- it's one of the great feelings knowing you're on the right track. Yet that gets obscured. To quote the DFW title- something to do with paying attention.
Thanks Salvador. DFW–––it's difficult for fish to know they're swimming in water.
Measure morality? Against what? Unsure of what you ask?Morality is taught in the Torah, in the 10 commandments. I see envy as being a major problem in society today. Envy of the Jewish people. Envy of the wealthy. Envy of the neighbor with the new car, the pretty wife, etc. Being grateful is key.
Sounds like you had a meaningful holiday. 🙏
It’s always powerful for me.
Wishing you a Good, sweet, and happy new year.
Somewhere I’ve read something like, “The steepest fall is from the steps of the church.” Paraphrased and maybe misremembered, but it fits here! (PS if anyone has the real, correct quote, I would love to know)
Thanks Betty. I will attribute it to you!
😛
A thought-provoking question. I can’t see into the hearts of others. I was raised with the injunction: “Judge not, lest ye be judged,” from the Bible of a mother who judged me almost into non-existence. As I’ve aged, I’ve found my moral compass through children. What would my six-year-old neighbor think about me if she knew? Works every time. I rely as well on the memory of my father, still my model of integrity. Then there’s my 22-year-old cat. Her message: I didn’t stick around this long just to watch you f- up. Thank you, David, for the opportunity to sort through this issue in a meaningful, personal way.
Thanks Mary. "judge not, lest ye be judged" is in Lincoln's second Inaugural, which is probably my all time favorite speech.
In his Theory of Moral Sentiments, Adam Smith writes that we all have an Impartial Spectator who we know is judging our actions. Better yet if you have an impartial spectator committee,
Love the idea of a Spectator committee. The Second Inaugural is my favorite speech as well, although the Gettysburg Address has me in tears, every single time. Then there’s “Sinnerman.” I might just add Nina to my committee.
Love that cat. Must be very happy and well cared for
I used to be non-judgmental etc until I found out THEY were being totally judgemental of me and,well,seems I have an alter ego who has lived a much more exciting life than me. It's NOT RECIPROCAL. It's not GUARANTEED. Just because you are being tolerant,accepting , - non judgemental THEY don't have to reciprocate. And they probably won't.
So true. Nothing is guaranteed.
Interesting thought from you, "evolution in my own flaws gives me cause for optimism"
Thanks Victor.
love optimism
David, I was at services for Yom Kippur and the liturgy hit me hard -- Was it the times we are in? We must look inward and try to understand those who continue to support what I see as the destruction of democracy. But I'm finding it harder and harder to talk with Trump supporters and, while reading the liturgy, had so much trouble finding a way to do that.
Thanks, mary I suppose we are all like Jonah not wanting to speak to the people of Nineveh
Except unlike the people of Nimba, the people to whom we’d be preaching, would not listen
I highly recommend The Drunkards Walk:How Randomness Rules Our Lives by Leonard Mlodinow. It's a terrific, readable, often very funny look at our desperate need to be able to quantify cause and effect and why the world simply does not work that way.
I've just noted that book title + author. Will seek out.
thank you, David. I miss you. I think each has to be brutally honest with themselves, outside of the conditioning we have been swimming in, and really ask: are my intentions kind and just for the good of my family and for all humanity?
the voice of conscience inside knows the truth. sometimes it has been beaten into silence because we think our survival means the oppression of others, yet this is simply a trick, a test, to reach the truth again. It can feel like walking a tight rope in the air if the windy illusions are too strong, but in truth you are walking a line in the sand, and your feet are strong with each step because humanity survives from being good and caring about others, so all the support of the universe is with you.