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Samuel Roberts's avatar

I've been involved two fights as an adult.

Late 90s, as I was leaving a bar with my then- girlfriend/ now wife, Dani, after she played a gig at a lower east side dive, a very drunk guy, who was with equally drunk friends, stepped between us and the exit and said something leering to Dani. We tried to keep moving but the guy wouldn't be ignored, he kept partially blocking our exit. I used my hand to try to get him to move - same gesture and force one would use to clear a face level branch on a hike - at which point he said "f-ing nigg-s" (Dani is Black and the friend we were with was dark skinned Hispanic). I then shoved him. He then hit me pretty lightly in the face. I grabbed him by the throat and threw him up against the bar. I remember having what felt like his Adams apple in the hard 'C' of my thumb amd forefinger and thinking with weird clarity that it wouldn't be that hard to crush his windpipe. I felt... exhilaration. Then one of his friends hit me in the back of the head with something, I released, and our group of three got out of there, lots more yelling, racial slurs, no one hurt. I look back on those seconds when my hand gripped a stranger's throat - I don't recognize myself in that moment, but I cannot deny the weird admixtures of both thrill and curiosity.

[2] In late 2017, after a work party, I had words with a severely intoxicated now-ex parole judge. We were introduced to each other at the party and instantly disliked each other. The dislike abated somewhat over the next couple of hours but resurfaced at the party's end, when we were milling outside the venue.

I said something taunting to him, he said something very weird and threatening to me, and the next thing I remember, I awoke in an ambulance. The incident was captured on video and was witnessed by friends. The drunken judge suckerpunched me with a vicious right hook. I fell backwards, hit my head on the sidewalk, and lost consciousness. The judge - who weighed about 325 lbs - lost his balance on his follow through and fell on me. The collarbone connevting tendons in my right shoulder were permanently torn as a result. Otherwise, I was fine. There remains my deformed shoulder and a picture of me in the Daily News with a nasty black eye.

[3] In both these instances, I got really really lucky. Incident #1 - had I squeezed harder and longer, had the guy's friend not hit me with something, I could have seriously injured or even killed the stranger. Over pretty much nothing. Manslaughter plea, years of prison, no career as a public defender, no beloved daughter. (But maybe a substack about what life in and after prison is like?? Sparks from Sing Sing!). Incident #2 - I could have had my skull fractured and been vegetable-ized. In both incidents, I had consumed a fair amount of alcohol, and my adversaries considerably more. Had we all been sober, I'm convinced neither would have happened. It's interesting and appropriate that under NY law, in a claim of self defense, to introduce evidence of a victim's past violence or aggressive nature, the defendant must have known about such violence or aggression.for a jury to hear about it. Otherwise, even if the victim had killed five people in the past, if the defendant didnt know about it, it is not admissible. But if the victim was intoxicated, that fact is admissible regardless of a defnedant's knowledge - because courts recognize thar people just act differently (i.e. worse!) when under the influence of alcohol and certain drugs. All of the cass of stranger assault I've handled as a defense attorneys that I can recall involved intoxication, usually on the part of both defendant and conplainant/victim.

[4] There is a great, great book by Bill Buford, Among the Thugs, that ties together themes of violence, class, and sports - specifically the orgiastically violent escapades of soccer hooligans in late 70s/early 80s Great Britain. Buford himself, though educated and obviously super smart and thoughtful, was seduced into this culture, and much of this incredibly entertaining and scary book is occupied by his attempts to understand the nature of that seduction. The characters in this memoir make Baldy look like Rachel Maddow.

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Mills Baker's avatar

I grew up in what pass for “elite” environments in New Orleans and have been in plenty of fights. I think I’ve lost most of them, and the older I got the more of them I lost: time winnows the number of men stupid enough to fight without knowing how to fight, such that by college most of the scraps I had were with dudes who easily whooped me. I’m little and angry, the classic moron type known to all who drink: I mistake the intensity of my prideful anger for physical capability. In my mind, at 43, my anger is still a “force,” when it is in fact the opposite, a weakness. I learned to box to try and get some discipline, but I was never going to be much of a problem for people.

I do think you learn things from fights, such as “the limits of the mental world” or “the irrelevance of concepts or claims” in some quarters. Knowing violent people changes your model of “the root causes of violence” for sure; plenty of them aren’t victims of any sort, plenty of them straight up love violence. I had that in me, and if I weren’t a weak little guy I’d have been a monster and possibly substantially criminal.

I don’t know that you missed any lesson you couldn’t more easily read though, honestly. I’m still reactive and would’ve intervened with the woman and the sign for sure. I’m foolish, but honor cultures pride themselves on foolishness, and I have to admit to doing the same. The strongest defense of this I’ll make is: a lot of people benefit from some people being willing to take on risk to enforce norms. I’m inclined to be that norm enforcer sometimes, and I’m okay with the possibilities, even in New Orleans, where lots of people are armed.

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