Very interesting! Makes me glad I never had a marriage to lose ! You are so right that attitudes toward money can make or break a relationship. I tend to think that even though I have many friends who have always had money I’d have trouble being married to someone who had never been poor. It’s a different life experience. However I prefer that both I and any theoretical partner be stable careful and not crazy. Meanwhile, improve your bridge game ! You annoyed Debbie!
4 diamonds? I love bridge, but haven’t played for decades. I need to find a partner. My husband just isn’t particularly interested. I think I get my love of bridge from my father. Until he was about 70, he could keep track of all four suits during the play.
It's been a while since I played bridge, but 4H might be the right bid -- it shows the lower end of the point range and some heart support (I don't know if it would overpromise three heart cards, but you do have slightly better than minimum value).
I have no excuses. Should have bid diamonds. Debbie might have then bid four hearts, which would have confirmed a fit. This is an example of really good interference by the opponents.
My first thought reading this was for the kids. How their father could just reject them -- or so it seems from the summary. That's cold. As an examination of the inner critic / bully, this is fascinating. My bully (abuser) is most likely an exaggerated version of my critical-but-loving mother. That exercise where you imagine saying even a watered-down version of your inner voice to literally anyone outside yourself - friend or enemy - is illuminating. I love the exercise of writing it down. Reminds me of The Work by Byron Katie. That saved me.
Thanks Julie. Belle did a good job of including the kids in the narrative but still not delving into anything too personal to them. James eventually sees the kids, like an uncle might, but Belle is clearly the main parent.
If her husband was too … whatever… to install a second, third, twenty-ninth phone for his outward flights, which he could have set off when not suitable, he either was deliberately doing this or was too dumb for organizing it. I don“t know if in the book the question is raised why it should always (only) be in the duty of the ‚betrayed‘ to see red flags and not in the duty of the dissatisfied ,betrayer, to talk about it. Everyone“ s talking about „Free Speech“ these days but it appears no one seems ready to understand what it might mean and be carrying „uncomfortable‘, and ready to find comfort in it instead conceiving and judging(!) it as war.
I'm so glad you wrote about this book! I've been talking about it with everyone.
I was sitting in deep judgment of Belle while reading because she did not see the red flags in the way he interacted with her over money, and also the way she handled their financial affairs. The prenup almost did me in! I was like, Belle, you went to Harvard Law and worked at Davis Polk!! You know better. And then she paid no attention to their finances. And then she emptied her trusts to buy homes that she put in both their names. What? It's like a family law hypo on how not to handle your money.
So even though I was "on her side" while reading it, I thought she had been an idiot. Until she started going to dinners with friends of his in attendance, all his male finance and hedge fund buddies and colleagues. They just laughed and talked about how he was playing hard ball. Then it all changed for me.
She may have gone into it with eyes wide shut and stupidly signed one of the dumbest prenups ever. But she did it coming from a place of wanting to trust and love. His behavior, on the other hand (at least in the divorce proceeding), came from a place of something different. Competition, indifference, legal outmaneuvering. And that's when I really came over to her side, just like that!
Allison, I had a similar sort of journey. She was so deeply in love. Even after the rupture and his terrible behavior, her body has the muscle memory of their love when they sit next to each other at a graduation. The behavior of the men was particularly disappointing if not despicable, although I was glad there were a few "good guys."
I won’t be reading this book because I went through a too-similar experience minus the money and prominence.
My first marriage lasted 15 years. We were together for most of college. Had two children. I thought all was well and was utterly blindsided by the end. That was in 2002 so I’ve had plenty of time to try to figure out what happened but I still don’t know. I’ve had to accept that I won’t ever know.
Sorry about your experience. I won’t read it because I’m a child of a messy divorce. My elderly mom still claims, “he left,” and my dad, “she kicked me out.”
What a great review. I loved the way you related your own inner struggle to the author’s.
As a child of a messy divorce, this story line was triggering. I am always sad for the kids. Did Belle mention the kids in her book and how they coped?
I too go over the bill with a comb. I’ve often found big mistakes. Hehe.
Belle did a good job of including the kids in the narrative but still not delving into anything too personal to them. James eventually sees the kids, like an uncle might, but Belle is clearly the main parent.
BTW when Alisa asked me in her Empress interview what advice I live by I sited my favorite Shakespeare quote, “To mourn the mischief that is past and gone is the next way to mourn new mischief on.”
nice reminder about our inner 'sadistic bullies' and yes, while hindsight is 20/20 we all just have to give ourselves grace for things now outside of our control. i see you didn't mention those beloved ospreys lol! btw david we wrote coinciding book reviews (substack jinx!) here's mine if interested: https://shindy.substack.com/p/12-thoughts-belle-burden-strangers
I love how you write David, that although our lives could not be more wildly different in terms of heritage and wealth etc, you always write in such a language I can really understand and relate to.
I always think reading a book where you can personally relate to places, events, eras and people you may have known, or know about, are made so much more interesting to read as you say. I love how you explained how this book made you feel about Belle and then flip flopped a bit to her husband, then back, and ultimately related it all to your own hindsight biases. I had not heard of 'hindsight bias' before but I instantly realised that it was hidden in plain sight in my world too.
Once very recently where we decided to sell some gold sovereigns that we bought many years ago, more for the dates they each had on them and what those dates meant to us over time. Then gold rocketed again!! But we had still made a very good sum. We've done the same with selling shares over time too, but we always calm each other by saying 'we should not be too greedy' Fifty years married this year, we can do that I guess.
But where you referred to the red flags that Belle saw, yet did nothing about, was me and our son who was (is?) a gambler, steadily stealing our wealth and I could not see it and until very recently blamed myself for not having the hindsight to approach the matter way before we did and it was then too late. I think too, love does come into having 'foresight' bias so much.
Thanks Sally. (I always think of Hard Times when I see you comment!). Passion and love definitely can cloud judgment. But the cure––not to love––is far far worse than the potential for misjudgment. I think it's a tribute to the author that we can go back and forth in our judgments while reading the memoir.
Ha,ha maybe I was once a circus child in a past life!! Yes indeed I agree. And I too like it when a memoir has you seeing both or even several sides of a coin.
Now in my 29th year of my relationship (we are not married), I am sure the red flags are known. We never combined our personal money. We shared a joint bank account and although my "husband" could have afforded to buy our first house outright, he insisted we get a 50/50 equally shared mortgage and pay all house bills the same. He wanted me to understand the impact of life choices. It was valuable skill and life's lesson. When I wanted a new kitchen and he did not, we went down the path of "compromise". In the end I looked at him and thought, he would never ask me for $250k to collect antique cars (his past time). So why would I ask him for $250k to build my dream home (my past time). So I got a mortgage, bought a piece of land, designed a home and we now live there. I would not recommend this approach. But the red flags were obvious. Our value systems are markedly different. In an effort to reconcile these, I am thankfully financially independent and can afford to make me first happy. It sounds self centered. But the good news is my needs and wants are fairly low level so as to not offend and they don't harm him (a beautiful home to live in rent free with a 19 car garage below). I am not out drinking and drugging and buying jewelry and driving a fancy car. We have lots of shared commonalities (I like buying groceries on sale, running my business lean and self controlled, I am a do it myself attitude kind of person) and for these reasons, our red flags are just flags. And I came to accept that I didn't need him to become me and me to become him. That would have left one of us sad and angry and probably we would have divorced!
Thanks for the comment. I think there are "red flags" in every relationship and the difference arises in whether the couple can address them. Which you have clearly done. It takes effort and intentionality but it's so worth it.
Was wondering / hoping you’d write about Strangers and what your perspective would be. I couldn’t put the book down, and your friend is right - was the voyeur of it all. Loved your recap and assessment.
I’m intrigued to read the book now, David. Hindsight bias is such a good phrase.
My parents always sparred over money (not having much of it and having different approaches to it). By contrast, Ian and I set up a joint account very early on in our relationship and have always had a ‘what’s yours is mine’ approach. Such a relief. I remember Ian paying for dinner on our first date without me noticing. When I offered to contribute, he said no worries, I could pay next time, which signalled there would be a next time! I was very happy about that.
Fascinating--and, as an avid bridge player, I also love the bridge interlude and the hand. David, do you ever play on Shark Bridge? I'm CharlieGuy there--though at the moment I'm in the midst, as you might know, of a book launch.
Very interesting! Makes me glad I never had a marriage to lose ! You are so right that attitudes toward money can make or break a relationship. I tend to think that even though I have many friends who have always had money I’d have trouble being married to someone who had never been poor. It’s a different life experience. However I prefer that both I and any theoretical partner be stable careful and not crazy. Meanwhile, improve your bridge game ! You annoyed Debbie!
Thanks April. Debbie agrees about Bridge!
4 diamonds? I love bridge, but haven’t played for decades. I need to find a partner. My husband just isn’t particularly interested. I think I get my love of bridge from my father. Until he was about 70, he could keep track of all four suits during the play.
That would have been better than a pass, although with opponent’s interference it was not going to be easy for me to find slam.
I am such an amateur, I might have also bid 4 NT; then my partner could take it to slam.
It's been a while since I played bridge, but 4H might be the right bid -- it shows the lower end of the point range and some heart support (I don't know if it would overpromise three heart cards, but you do have slightly better than minimum value).
Yes, four diamonds and then his partner decides whether to close out at 4 hearts or ask for aces and whether to go to 6 or even 7 hearts.
And it turns out that 7 hearts would have been a laydown.
You're lucky to still be married, David. :-)
I have no excuses. Should have bid diamonds. Debbie might have then bid four hearts, which would have confirmed a fit. This is an example of really good interference by the opponents.
On to new and more sophisticated mistakes!
My first thought reading this was for the kids. How their father could just reject them -- or so it seems from the summary. That's cold. As an examination of the inner critic / bully, this is fascinating. My bully (abuser) is most likely an exaggerated version of my critical-but-loving mother. That exercise where you imagine saying even a watered-down version of your inner voice to literally anyone outside yourself - friend or enemy - is illuminating. I love the exercise of writing it down. Reminds me of The Work by Byron Katie. That saved me.
Same! I’m a child of divorce and I’m always sad for the kids. I’d love to know if Belle talks about them.
Thanks Julie. Belle did a good job of including the kids in the narrative but still not delving into anything too personal to them. James eventually sees the kids, like an uncle might, but Belle is clearly the main parent.
Well, I guess it's better than nothing. Thanks for clarifying that.
If her husband was too … whatever… to install a second, third, twenty-ninth phone for his outward flights, which he could have set off when not suitable, he either was deliberately doing this or was too dumb for organizing it. I don“t know if in the book the question is raised why it should always (only) be in the duty of the ‚betrayed‘ to see red flags and not in the duty of the dissatisfied ,betrayer, to talk about it. Everyone“ s talking about „Free Speech“ these days but it appears no one seems ready to understand what it might mean and be carrying „uncomfortable‘, and ready to find comfort in it instead conceiving and judging(!) it as war.
I'm so glad you wrote about this book! I've been talking about it with everyone.
I was sitting in deep judgment of Belle while reading because she did not see the red flags in the way he interacted with her over money, and also the way she handled their financial affairs. The prenup almost did me in! I was like, Belle, you went to Harvard Law and worked at Davis Polk!! You know better. And then she paid no attention to their finances. And then she emptied her trusts to buy homes that she put in both their names. What? It's like a family law hypo on how not to handle your money.
So even though I was "on her side" while reading it, I thought she had been an idiot. Until she started going to dinners with friends of his in attendance, all his male finance and hedge fund buddies and colleagues. They just laughed and talked about how he was playing hard ball. Then it all changed for me.
She may have gone into it with eyes wide shut and stupidly signed one of the dumbest prenups ever. But she did it coming from a place of wanting to trust and love. His behavior, on the other hand (at least in the divorce proceeding), came from a place of something different. Competition, indifference, legal outmaneuvering. And that's when I really came over to her side, just like that!
Allison, I had a similar sort of journey. She was so deeply in love. Even after the rupture and his terrible behavior, her body has the muscle memory of their love when they sit next to each other at a graduation. The behavior of the men was particularly disappointing if not despicable, although I was glad there were a few "good guys."
1. "Sunlight is the best disinfectant."-Louis Brandeis 2. Masks are easier to wear than remove.3.Perfect musical coda.
Thanks Philippe. Great concision!
I need to be more concise, in life.
I won’t be reading this book because I went through a too-similar experience minus the money and prominence.
My first marriage lasted 15 years. We were together for most of college. Had two children. I thought all was well and was utterly blindsided by the end. That was in 2002 so I’ve had plenty of time to try to figure out what happened but I still don’t know. I’ve had to accept that I won’t ever know.
Sorry about your experience. I won’t read it because I’m a child of a messy divorce. My elderly mom still claims, “he left,” and my dad, “she kicked me out.”
Michelle and Carissa, understood.
That’s really horrible.
My kids were old enough to see and judge what happened for themselves. It is my one comfort regarding that mess, to be honest.
Guessing it was a Godless marriage. Not that faith in a higher power guarantees anything, but it helps.
And buying stock is easy, selling stock is very difficult. Gotta let it go and don’t look back. You should never sell a stock unless you have to.
Some sort of spirituality does help. Great point.
Religion/spirituality was not an important part of their lives.
What a great review. I loved the way you related your own inner struggle to the author’s.
As a child of a messy divorce, this story line was triggering. I am always sad for the kids. Did Belle mention the kids in her book and how they coped?
I too go over the bill with a comb. I’ve often found big mistakes. Hehe.
Belle did a good job of including the kids in the narrative but still not delving into anything too personal to them. James eventually sees the kids, like an uncle might, but Belle is clearly the main parent.
Descended from the Commodore? Wow.
BTW when Alisa asked me in her Empress interview what advice I live by I sited my favorite Shakespeare quote, “To mourn the mischief that is past and gone is the next way to mourn new mischief on.”
That's a great line. Thanks!
nice reminder about our inner 'sadistic bullies' and yes, while hindsight is 20/20 we all just have to give ourselves grace for things now outside of our control. i see you didn't mention those beloved ospreys lol! btw david we wrote coinciding book reviews (substack jinx!) here's mine if interested: https://shindy.substack.com/p/12-thoughts-belle-burden-strangers
Hi Shindy, I just read yours, which I liked very much, and commented.
😭 Thank you so much for your readership and support
I love how you write David, that although our lives could not be more wildly different in terms of heritage and wealth etc, you always write in such a language I can really understand and relate to.
I always think reading a book where you can personally relate to places, events, eras and people you may have known, or know about, are made so much more interesting to read as you say. I love how you explained how this book made you feel about Belle and then flip flopped a bit to her husband, then back, and ultimately related it all to your own hindsight biases. I had not heard of 'hindsight bias' before but I instantly realised that it was hidden in plain sight in my world too.
Once very recently where we decided to sell some gold sovereigns that we bought many years ago, more for the dates they each had on them and what those dates meant to us over time. Then gold rocketed again!! But we had still made a very good sum. We've done the same with selling shares over time too, but we always calm each other by saying 'we should not be too greedy' Fifty years married this year, we can do that I guess.
But where you referred to the red flags that Belle saw, yet did nothing about, was me and our son who was (is?) a gambler, steadily stealing our wealth and I could not see it and until very recently blamed myself for not having the hindsight to approach the matter way before we did and it was then too late. I think too, love does come into having 'foresight' bias so much.
Thanks Sally. (I always think of Hard Times when I see you comment!). Passion and love definitely can cloud judgment. But the cure––not to love––is far far worse than the potential for misjudgment. I think it's a tribute to the author that we can go back and forth in our judgments while reading the memoir.
Ha,ha maybe I was once a circus child in a past life!! Yes indeed I agree. And I too like it when a memoir has you seeing both or even several sides of a coin.
Now in my 29th year of my relationship (we are not married), I am sure the red flags are known. We never combined our personal money. We shared a joint bank account and although my "husband" could have afforded to buy our first house outright, he insisted we get a 50/50 equally shared mortgage and pay all house bills the same. He wanted me to understand the impact of life choices. It was valuable skill and life's lesson. When I wanted a new kitchen and he did not, we went down the path of "compromise". In the end I looked at him and thought, he would never ask me for $250k to collect antique cars (his past time). So why would I ask him for $250k to build my dream home (my past time). So I got a mortgage, bought a piece of land, designed a home and we now live there. I would not recommend this approach. But the red flags were obvious. Our value systems are markedly different. In an effort to reconcile these, I am thankfully financially independent and can afford to make me first happy. It sounds self centered. But the good news is my needs and wants are fairly low level so as to not offend and they don't harm him (a beautiful home to live in rent free with a 19 car garage below). I am not out drinking and drugging and buying jewelry and driving a fancy car. We have lots of shared commonalities (I like buying groceries on sale, running my business lean and self controlled, I am a do it myself attitude kind of person) and for these reasons, our red flags are just flags. And I came to accept that I didn't need him to become me and me to become him. That would have left one of us sad and angry and probably we would have divorced!
Thanks for the comment. I think there are "red flags" in every relationship and the difference arises in whether the couple can address them. Which you have clearly done. It takes effort and intentionality but it's so worth it.
Was wondering / hoping you’d write about Strangers and what your perspective would be. I couldn’t put the book down, and your friend is right - was the voyeur of it all. Loved your recap and assessment.
Thanks Lindsey.
I’m intrigued to read the book now, David. Hindsight bias is such a good phrase.
My parents always sparred over money (not having much of it and having different approaches to it). By contrast, Ian and I set up a joint account very early on in our relationship and have always had a ‘what’s yours is mine’ approach. Such a relief. I remember Ian paying for dinner on our first date without me noticing. When I offered to contribute, he said no worries, I could pay next time, which signalled there would be a next time! I was very happy about that.
We are a “joint” couple as well.
Fascinating--and, as an avid bridge player, I also love the bridge interlude and the hand. David, do you ever play on Shark Bridge? I'm CharlieGuy there--though at the moment I'm in the midst, as you might know, of a book launch.
I play on Bridgebase. So much fun!