55 Comments
User's avatar
Jonathan Brownson's avatar

Perhaps there is a way to distinguish opposition from hatred. I don't hate America because I passionately oppose the war in Iran. I don't hate Israel either because I passionately oppose the war in Gaza.

I have my own questions about Baldwin. Still, they are questions I need to answer, not him. I have never been a black man growing up in the U.S. I have never been a Jew growing up in the West Bank. I "question" what my positions might be if I didn't occupy a privileged white, Christian, male, heterosexual place.

Jane Trombley's avatar

“Even” a privileged white, Christian, FEMALE, heterosexual place begs the question, Jonathan.

Jonathan Brownson's avatar

agreed

Chantel Grant's avatar

Thanks for questioning like you are doing. I wish more would.

Elizabeth Gahbler's avatar

"So if Baldwin failed, I will not credit the current crop of Israel haters with avoiding antisemitism. I’m convinced that one hate follows the other as day follows night."

So true, and such a problem. Jew here, living in Dachau, Germany, of all places. With lots of family and friends in Israel, with a nephew as well as more distant friends currently in the reserves. Am so _not_ a fan of Netanyahu and (but?) have to hold two truths in my mind at the same time: My identity as a proud Jew and with the Jewish religion and my love for the people and Medinat Israel (State of Israel) _AND_ my stomachache with the violence that goes on daily in the West Bank and Gaza. At present, however, there have been so many missiles raining down on Israel I'm just sick. Not conflicted, just sick, despondent. My sister in Israel writes about their wonderful desert paradise in a gallows humor mode. And I have so many Iranian friends here who are desparate for regime change.

Sorry if this doesn't make a lot of sense; nothing makes much sense right now.

David Roberts's avatar

Elizabeth, your comment makes perfect sense. Holding various truths that conflict is so difficult, which is one reason most people give up on it. It's a rare and very valuable skill.

Elizabeth Gahbler's avatar

I could write volumes on holding many truths in the palm of my hands - if I weren't so busy using my hands for so much other stuff at the moment. But I think you could write about it.

Jane Trombley's avatar

This one really made me think. Thanks.

Philippe du Col's avatar

Empowering hate speech has been a hallmark of our Mayor, and his wife, who seem adept at social media cues as Baldwin was with words. Already warned by rating agencies, the Mayor best to focus on numeracy and finding cash than his sire’s colonialist cover for antisemism.

hb861's avatar

Thats a lot of innuendos and circumstantial accusations by the NY Post,. A Murdoch owned newspaper (for whom I worked previously for many years). The MSN article states that the Mayor condemned the author.. is that the best you got? At this point i am more inclined to believe that you and Philip Du Cul are racists.

Not so young anymore.'s avatar

Oh I see. You don’t like the article. You like Susan Abulhawa? You deny she hates Jews and called them cockroaches? You deny that Mandanis wife doesn’t believe Israeli women were raped by Hamas? You deny she illustrated a book for Abulwaha?

Tell me what you believe. Tell me what you deny.

hb861's avatar

I personally dont care about Israel, Palestine or Iran.. none of these places are worth the lives of American soldiers. As to Mayor Mandami I think history will be his judge and the voters. I care about America and its future.

David Golush's avatar

You are a sick person

Not so young anymore.'s avatar

Oh I see. You don’t like the article. You like Susan Abulhawa? You deny she hates Jews and called them cockroaches? You deny that Mandanis wife doesn’t believe Israeli women were raped by Hamas? You deny she illustrated a book for Abulwaha?

You call me a racist? That’s funny. You’re just an apologist for Hamas.

Tell me what you believe. Tell me what you deny.

hb861's avatar

Are you Ok? Need to see a psychiatrist? Or maybe you need help with your medication(s)?

Not so young anymore.'s avatar

I’m fine. Now again. Did Susan Abulhawa say Jews are cockroaches? Yes or no? Did Mamdani’s wife illustrate one of her books? Yes or no? Do you have cognitive impairment?

Rona Maynard's avatar

Sentence for sentence, Baldwin is the best. I really, really don’t want him to be an anti-semite, but this brave, necessary piece leaves no doubt in my mind.

David Roberts's avatar

Rona,

I will always value and admire his writing. Thanks for the comment.

Midlife Musings's avatar

Thanks for writing this. Very enlightening.

Mic'd and Medicated's avatar

Thank you for this essay, David, and your courage and candor!!!

Good Humor by CK Steefel's avatar

I remember this essay. Well crafted and written. Baldwin was misguided regarding Israel and Jews. The slap from his father knocked the hate into him. What’s ironic is that Baldwin was gay. Like the pro Hamas LGBTQ community today, he would have been thrown off a roof by the “Palestinians.”

DJ Duke's avatar

“However much one tries, can one ever really be unbiased?”

Isabel Cowles Murphy's avatar

David, I salute your continued exploration of confirmation bias... I love that this essay comes close on the heels of you revisiting the con-artist Anne. There's such intellectual honesty and searching in these pieces, which I really admire. The story of being caught in grown-up judgments and the break in the simple, moral clarity of youth makes this telling so rich.

David Roberts's avatar

Thanks Isabel. As young children, our emotions are so pure.

Lawrence Goldstone's avatar

A couple of historical notes here. In 1954, of all the lawyers pleading for the plaintiffs in Brown v Board, only one was white...Jack Greenberg, a Jew. During the Civil Rights movement of the 1960s, Jews were at the forefront, and two were murdered in Mississippi. On the other hand, during the same period, Jewish merchants in Harlem were notorious as slumlords or for selling to Black residents on credit and then repossessing the goods after one missed payment. This is not to excuse Baldwin, who, of all people, should have known better, but simply to point out that the relationship of Jews and Blacks during that time was complex.

On another note, you took me task when I commented on an earlier piece that the current rise of antisemitism could not be separated from the actions of the Netanyahu government and that American Jews did themselves no favors with an "Israel right or wrong" attitude. I thought I was right then and I still do. I simply cannot see how Jews can say they they don't support Netanyahu while still giving money to groups like AIPAC. If we have learned anything from the Trump presidency it is that we need to be even more ferocious opposing the rot in institutions we hold dear.

David Roberts's avatar

I agree with not having an Israel right or wrong attitude and I think AIPAC also contributes to antisemitism. However, I view the continued existence of Israel as a Jewish state to be a fundamental value. So, it's two positions very difficult to hold at once right now.

Lawrence Goldstone's avatar

With that, I totally agree. I don't want to see the United States as we know it cease to exist, and so I will do everything possible to get Trump and his supporters out of power. The same is true of Israel. There is a vibrant opposition in Israel that would very much benefit from the support of American Jews but they get no publicity and not nearly enough support. If American Jews stop buying into Netanyahu's doomsday rhetoric, as the United States seems to finally be doing with Trump, the Israeli opposition might become a lot more of a force. That means some painful decisions for people like you, but in the end, you will be working for the survival of the Israel you venerate, not the one that has become a perversion of the values on which it was founded.

Terry Freedman's avatar

It's very disappointing about Baldwin. I love his writing and his intellect, but the antisemitism detracts, to say the least, just as hatred of any other group would. The colour aspect shows a degree of ignorance on his part too I think, because a lot of Jewish people aren't white. As for the anti-Israel aspect, I often think that is used as an excuse by antisemites. How else to explain phenomena in Britain such as two six year-old girls being called baby killers, ditto elderly grandmothers, secondary school boys at a football match being told to go back to the gas chambers, a bakery founded by an Israeli 25 years ago, now under different ownership, continually having their windows smashed, two Jews killed in a synagogue attack on Yom Kippur, a plot to murder hundreds of Jews in the city of Manchester thwarted (TG), and four Jewish ambulances being destroyed by arson? None of these examples have anything to do with Israel.

David Roberts's avatar

Terry,

It's true that many don't need an excuse to conduct antisemitic acts. But I do think the recent rise in antisemitism is tied into hatred of this Israeli government.

Heartworker's avatar

Would you ever say you "have nothing against the British", "but" have "some criticism of Keir Starmer"? Would you ever say you "have nothing against the USA or Americans" "but" have "some criticism of Trump"? Would you ever say you "have nothing against Spain", "but" have "some criticism of Pedro Sánchez"? Would you ever say you "have nothing against Hungary, "but" have "some criticism of Orbán"? Would you ever say you "have nothing against Russians" if you call Putin a criminal? Would you ever say you "have nothing against France", only "some criticism of Macron"?

Aside from the fact that no one has yet been able to tell me exactly what supposedly "justified criticism" of Netanyahu he has – a.o."he negotiates with Lebanon, but continues to wage war against Hezbollah" for example – so he's supposed to let Hezbollah bomb Israel to "not jeopardize the negotiations"?!?, right?, or what ? – with this kind of, excuse me, drivel, you've already sunk deep into the swamp and the "narratives" of quite ordinary "antisemitism" (=hatred of Jews/self-hatred), without even noticing or questioning this babble.

To be antisemitic, you simply have to be STUPID. Anyone who is STUPID, dangerous, and narrow-minded is automatically also antisemitic. He can be the most "great writer", the most oh so poor, persecuted Black and/or Gay person: he is and remains an uninteresting piece of SHIT whose writing I will certainly never touch again. He can only be insignificant.

As long as not everyone understands this, the drivel and babble – I'm not an anti-Semite – "but"... "I just..." etc. – will continue.

Not so young anymore.'s avatar

Yes agreed. Bibi is the goat who is sent to hell. But really what did he do? No one can really say mass delusion

Not so young anymore.'s avatar

Amazing work. Thank you for your absolute clear thinking.

Ellen Kornmehl MD's avatar

A topic not out in the open for dialogue enough. Memory and historical recall, especially for young progressives, is not long enough. American Jews were allies working toward civil rights and drivers of philanthropy during the pandemic, yet they remain vulnerable to oppression wars in the Middle East conflict.

<Mary L. Tabor>'s avatar

Disappointing and discouraging, no doubt, David. As a Jew and a deep reader of Baldwin, I have come to view his stance with other deeply gifted artists whom I deeply admire, despite their stance on Jews: T.S. Eliot and Wagner and, even harder to believe, Heidegger--his Black Notebooks reveal his deep anti-Semitism and that he was a Nazi. What to do about this is the question for those artists who have died? To read or not to read? To listen to the operas or not to listen? Would love your thoughts, David.

David Roberts's avatar

Mary, I don't think Baldwin or any of those other writers/artists ought to be cancelled.

Here's a favorite clip from Curb Your Enthusiasm:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f14YiN_RjrA

<Mary L. Tabor>'s avatar

Made me laugh! TY1